tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post4615000422620995875..comments2024-03-19T21:14:01.007-07:00Comments on The Compass Rose: Moore, Formalism & Post Avant [Part Three]Curtis Favillehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-13547332514999029242009-05-22T07:47:48.048-07:002009-05-22T07:47:48.048-07:00I frequently have a difficult time
following
anyt...I frequently have a difficult time <br />following<br />anything...<br /><br />much less my self.<br /><br />well conditional...<br /><br />any statement that is signaled by<br /><br />should<br /><br />would<br /><br />could<br /><br />should-of<br />would-of<br />could-of<br /><br />well no need to nail your<br />writing/thinking hand/head (heart) to the out-house wall..<br /><br />in his introduction to Dogen's Shobogenzo Cleary offers up (page 12/13:<br /><br />""[...]. The monk asked, "Do you have any other particular directions?" <br />Gyozan said,<br /><br />"To say there is something particular or not would not be accurate. Based on your view, you only get one mystery. You get the seat and wear the robe - after this, see on your own.""<br /><br />here "would not" is used as past (tense) of "will"<br /><br />not to make any verb conditional///<br /><br />etcsEd Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-70928485442405034672009-05-22T07:26:38.494-07:002009-05-22T07:26:38.494-07:00Ed:
Not sure what you mean by "conditional" here....Ed:<br /><br />Not sure what you mean by "conditional" here.<br /><br />...not following you.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-30601694077618929462009-05-22T07:18:07.319-07:002009-05-22T07:18:07.319-07:00so
which abstract dialectic not narrative system/...so<br /><br />which abstract dialectic not narrative system/meaning should/could "we" agree upon<br /> and "share" ?<br /><br />maybe jus' drop the conditional as being useless drivel?<br /><br />and begin again<br />to<br />make sense?Ed Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-32699444985013828552009-05-22T07:09:28.986-07:002009-05-22T07:09:28.986-07:00I haven't read Roussel.
Obviously, I can't get ...I haven't read Roussel. <br /><br />Obviously, I can't get into the manifold complexities of all the kinds of writing which influence Silliman's work, I'm just making stray connections here.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-75083743289598219742009-05-22T06:50:06.820-07:002009-05-22T06:50:06.820-07:00"Would it be possible to have an abstract dialecti..."Would it be possible to have an abstract dialectic of sentences in which narrative is NOT irrelevant? Perhaps this is what Perec was doing."<br /><br />Raymond Roussel also, maybe even more so.eddie watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339600880006987180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-86680939452649144162009-05-21T10:15:16.534-07:002009-05-21T10:15:16.534-07:00hey I'm (so far's I can see) w
that other "anonym...hey I'm (so far's I can see) w<br />that other "anonymous"...<br /><br /><br />as frequently:<br /><br />everything that<br />comes my way<br />strikes me<br /><br />(sent that on a post card to the author ( of <br /><br />IOVIS both 1 and 2) after skipping around in't<br /><br />just dropped my likes and dislikes and "went along for the ride"...for the "Bahng" of it<br /><br />and <br /> speaking of surreal <br /><br />what that cowardly lion (Burt Lahr said stands"<br /><br />"ain't that the truth"<br /><br />first three books of Neighbor / again speaking of The Surreal and "me"?<br /><br />at bottom of this page<br /><br />http://www.newmystics.com/lit/EdBaker.html<br /><br />we open with a Breton quote<br /><br />"the imaginary is what tends to become real"<br /><br />actually we 'open' with Giacometti AND Rilke then Breton...<br /><br /><br />for what it's worth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-77255402840585269432009-05-21T09:40:39.296-07:002009-05-21T09:40:39.296-07:00Curtis, have you read the poems of Robyn Schiff? Y...Curtis, have you read the poems of Robyn Schiff? You should, especially the final poem in her second book (Revolver) "Project Paper-clip." It's a rush of intensely complex syllabics, including syllabic stanzas. <br /><br />HalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-51730431185197894682009-05-21T09:20:46.708-07:002009-05-21T09:20:46.708-07:00Tate, after his first three or so books, became a ...Tate, after his first three or so books, became a doctrinaire surrealist (with a slapstick manner). This is like Thomas Lux, too, or Bill Knott. Bores me to tears.<br /><br />Simic is a little different. I think he's better. His poems don't seem to be "about" surrealism, but to be a literal description of extraordinary relationships and images. I find it compelling. It may just be a matter of taste. <br /><br />I dislike glib, hardy-har, surrealistic description. It's so repetitive.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-72128011319425929092009-05-21T09:13:41.588-07:002009-05-21T09:13:41.588-07:00yes, sure, everybody is influenced by everything, ...yes, sure, everybody is influenced by everything, but not everybody looks so blatantly obvious about it, and some are capable of successfully ripping off their predecessors in a way that makes their new work seem like something new. however, language poets generally fail at this. and miserably. because their main influence, stein, is barely read, let alone enjoyed. therefore, they have elected to be strongly influenced by the wrong predecessor. whereas poets like tate and simic are much better off because they selected surrealism as their primary influence. who doesn't at least enjoy a little bit of surrealism?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-47550763175183987822009-05-21T09:11:37.629-07:002009-05-21T09:11:37.629-07:00The critical theories of any movement may, or may ...The critical theories of any movement may, or may not, explain or justify or defend the actual works themselves. Language Poetry, as a movement, has been very keen on providing a historical and aesthetic description of itself. This may or may not be effective. I tend of think of it as part of the process itself, as feeding into the interrogation of life and literature which is Langpo's primary motive. <br /><br />You can like or not the works themselves. I would, however, try to separate the works from the critical and biographical stuff first, before rendering verdicts.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-15942342503595869632009-05-21T08:59:00.321-07:002009-05-21T08:59:00.321-07:00reading a silliman commentary on bernstein last ni...reading a silliman commentary on bernstein last night i noticed how elaborately silliman explained it. but if parsed, it was just subject-less phrases/sentences. and i simply rolled my eyes and laughed. "oh here we go again with the 'subject' being questioned..."<br /><br />somerset maugham, i think, said something to the effect of "doesn't anyone just tell a story anymore?"<br /><br />when virtuosity leaves art it is just style and cliques. language poetry is equivalent to steve vai: guitar music about the guitar and not the music. though i will concede that i greatly admire much of bernstein's work, though i disagree with the philosophy. it seems like silliman advocates a hyper-modernism opposed to anything else, goldsmith's weak aesthetic is deformed modernism as well. objectification or objectivism is precisely the problem with capitalism and not the "subject." oh these guys are boring fellas aren't they?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-75020021636020954792009-05-21T08:40:45.069-07:002009-05-21T08:40:45.069-07:00Actually I disagree here.
Silliman and other "L...Actually I disagree here. <br /><br />Silliman and other "Language Poets" (self-identified, though there are others who may be more "language" than the presumed "Language Poets" are!) are all different. Stein has a significant influence on most of them. That's like saying they're all influenced by Eliot and Pound and Williams and Stevens, which is also true. <br /><br />Would a poetry which superficially "looked like" any of those usual antecedents please you more than that which was superficially "like" Gertrude Stein? <br /><br />Everybody is influenced by everything. I don't see anyone as "copying" Stein--who'd want to?Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-10328309004588909912009-05-21T08:26:12.305-07:002009-05-21T08:26:12.305-07:00the problem with silliman and any of the other lan...the problem with silliman and any of the other language poets is that they are directly related to stein, as in, they are not original. hence, they are boring. and get boring very quickly because of the inherent meaninglessness. and they stay boring, as in, james joyces joke on academics everywhere, aka finnegans wake. joyces best stuff is dubliners. after that, it's pretty much shite. i have no interest in reading bad copiers. kind of like listening to bad finger. who actually does that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-73280095929120914462009-05-20T11:11:12.273-07:002009-05-20T11:11:12.273-07:00Stein very deliberately vanquished straight narrat...Stein very deliberately vanquished straight narrative from her writing. The Making of Americans is almost a ritualistic exorcism of plot, in favor of nested repetition(s). <br /><br />This is not to say that Stein's writing fails some limit; on the contrary, it succeeds. The Yale volumes, particularly, are fully realized poetic experiments.<br /><br />It may seem odd to put Moore's and Stein's work side by side, but the dissimilarity is telling.<br /><br />I'm interested in how Silliman's work is related to both Stein and Moore in ways that might not seem obvious at first.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-87783397171069982032009-05-20T09:23:34.805-07:002009-05-20T09:23:34.805-07:00as you posit
it is not so much that "it has no co...as you posit<br /><br />it is not so much that "it has no content"<br /><br />but rather<br /><br />the absence of any narrative however tight the thread is<br /><br />that exactly becomes a bore (cross) to bear(bare)?<br /><br />well,<br /><br />even<br />this<br />point<br />is<br /><br />point<br />-less<br /><br /><br />and, do check-out Ted Enslin's<br /><br /> The Weather WithinEd Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.com