tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post9071939875302835063..comments2024-03-19T21:14:01.007-07:00Comments on The Compass Rose: STANZAS FOR AN EVENING OUTCurtis Favillehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-73275511702035960112009-03-01T13:10:00.000-08:002009-03-01T13:10:00.000-08:00"This seems to me one of the "neuroses" of the pos..."This seems to me one of the "neuroses" of the post-Pound poetry, attempting to "get rid" of the persona, and the inability to do so."<BR/><BR/>Yup.<BR/><BR/>"It is very complex though--you have to get into his mythology...."<BR/><BR/>Yes. A very intricate matter with Yeats. I'm often astounded at how much he seemed to have agonized (maybe too strong a word) over the pathways to straightforward utterance. Rather like "earning" the right to speak in another's voice (Crazy Jane, etc.). It had to be the "right" voice(s). Huge preoccupation with Irish history and myth.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-45678647539448986932009-03-01T12:51:00.001-08:002009-03-01T12:51:00.001-08:00"Post-Modernism wants them stripped away."I think ..."Post-Modernism wants them stripped away."<BR/><BR/>I think Yeats' feeling was that there is no possible way to "strip away" at least some form of false persona; i.e. he wasn't just very "into" being false. And, given that you cannot "strip away" the ego completely (which manifests the necessity for the "masking"), Yeats advocates the conscious artificing of a more beautiful mask (or: Wilde and the man at the supermarket both had masks but the former's was made "his own" through conscious fabrication). This seems to me one of the "neuroses" of the post-Pound poetry, attempting to "get rid" of the persona, and the inability to do so. But these are obvious points.<BR/><BR/>"The business of persona in Yeats is complex, but I tend to think he kept a clear line between his literary and his "real" self. The construction of a "mask" seems to have been a convenience--not uncommon in Irish Lit--to permit the use of "voices" or dramatic personae with which to express various styles of utterance."<BR/><BR/>Have you read "Per Amica Silentiae Lunae"? I think he kept a clearer line than many of his contemporaries (his "A Coat" poem example). I'm not so sure the mask is specific to Irish literature--the Noh, the Greek, etc., were all models Yeats looked at. It is very complex though--you have to get into his mythology and so on, spinning of wheels, "dreaming back" etc. Much of that (the "anti-self," "daimon") goes back to Shelley's poetry, where a person lives on earth and "under" earth, and the mask resultant is stripped away (Shelley says "unified" I think) only by death.0000000https://www.blogger.com/profile/14767771887014774485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-90089647398024574862009-03-01T12:51:00.000-08:002009-03-01T12:51:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.0000000https://www.blogger.com/profile/14767771887014774485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-28108437225806446752009-03-01T12:13:00.000-08:002009-03-01T12:13:00.000-08:00The business of persona in Yeats is complex, but I...The business of persona in Yeats is complex, but I tend to think he kept a clear line between his literary and his "real" self. The construction of a "mask" seems to have been a convenience--not uncommon in Irish Lit--to permit the use of "voices" or dramatic personae with which to express various styles of utterance. It is, though, uncommon, for American poets to want to discuss the separation between their literary personae and their daily lives. Several very carefully constructed identities are reluctant to disturb the illusions they've created. Frost was a good example. Sandburg was another. It can be like money in the bank. <BR/><BR/>These artificial masks often are perpetuated for careerist purposes, or to maintain false fronts. Post-Modernism wants them stripped away.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-11760032827997783262009-03-01T11:51:00.000-08:002009-03-01T11:51:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.0000000https://www.blogger.com/profile/14767771887014774485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-53955919729460426372009-02-26T14:34:00.000-08:002009-02-26T14:34:00.000-08:00I didn't know you were doing this, Curtis; I look ...I didn't know you were doing this, Curtis; I look forward to reading more.<BR/><BR/>cheers,<BR/><BR/>Andy G.Andy Gricevichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04367834692026653431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-78154585017274907042009-02-26T06:56:00.000-08:002009-02-26T06:56:00.000-08:00The utilitarian model is how we Americans view our...The utilitarian model is how we Americans view ourselves, and anything outside of this mercantilization of oneself tends to not be honored. <BR/><BR/>The French civilization still stands outside of that.<BR/><BR/>Even when I watch American children's programming like Dora the Explorer I'm stunned at how utilitarian it is. They teach something, and that's it.<BR/><BR/>The programs don't have a soul.<BR/><BR/>In Finland, the children's programming (for instance, the Moomie family) is made by artists, and philosophers, not be educational utilitarian twits.<BR/><BR/>Philosophers and poets are honored in those countries, and even appear on the money. Sibelius is a national hero.<BR/><BR/>In this country it is utilitarian twits like Obama and George Washington on the money.<BR/><BR/>(I rather like Lincoln, and believe that he was one of our few politicians who was actually a poet, with a soul, so I won't say anything against him, or against W., who I think also had a soul, yearning to be free.)<BR/><BR/>This whole attempt to transform oneself into living money, exchangeable at the highest price, is something that I think even our most important artists rarely escape from. Warhol more or less embodies that framework, and illustrates it, even to the extent of calling his studio his Factory.<BR/><BR/>Against this trend are the outsiders like Poe and Dickinson.<BR/><BR/>I think Christianity, true Christianity, also stands against the utilitarian trend.<BR/><BR/>Marxism is the worst of utilitarianism. It turns everyone and everything into a tool of the all-reaching and omniscient state. Poets suffer more under Marxist regimes than under any other.<BR/><BR/>Because in Marxism even the personal is political.<BR/><BR/>I honor your attempt to go outside the norms, and to find a beauty that is peculiar to yourself, a beauty that only you can see. That's what poetry should be, instead of this utilitarian going along to get along, turning oneself into a commodity via a CV, and via some conduit to renown.<BR/><BR/>You still haven't explained any of your poems. Take one or two of them, and show me what you were after.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.com