tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post9108732424915804708..comments2024-02-11T12:24:26.294-08:00Comments on The Compass Rose: Clichés from the Immigration DebateCurtis Favillehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-3865755339444074332014-02-04T05:33:00.075-08:002014-02-04T05:33:00.075-08:00Dear Naughty Selfies:
First, I wish you could be ...Dear Naughty Selfies:<br /><br />First, I wish you could be yourself online.<br /><br />Hiding behind a fictitious identity shields you from responsibility, and allows you to be a little nastier than you would be, if you weren't hiding behind a mask.<br /><br />I don't know exactly what you're saying here. Who is the "he" you are referring to? If I knew that, I'd be able to respond. Am I "conservative" on immigration? Yes, if by that you mean that I think it needs to be controlled, and that we need to enforce our citizenship requirements. That isn't really very conservative, it's just common sense. Until the immigration lobby got all revved up, it was a pretty tame position. But the advocates for amnesty and open borders have demonized the other side. It takes some balls, now, to stand up for my side of the argument, to address it head on, in public. <br /><br />Are you too chicken to defend yours? Are you too frightened to take responsibility for your views?Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-46143529689045784742014-02-03T19:08:38.504-08:002014-02-03T19:08:38.504-08:00It's sad you don't seem to realize that, s...It's sad you don't seem to realize that, simply because he echoes your own rather conservative views on immigration. <br />naughty personnaughty selfieshttp://naughty-selfies.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-82234897059461973502010-08-05T04:57:01.606-07:002010-08-05T04:57:01.606-07:00I think you forget, Sir Faville exactly what you e...I think you forget, Sir Faville exactly what you enable when allowing Kirby Olstun to post his irrational conjectures of the day.<br /><br />Lets not forget KO's a foxnews lover, virulently anti-immigration, pro-war, a pro-Bush biblethumper--do you consider Martin Luther like a hipster, Sir F? He was not hip at all, but a pal of the bloody junker nobles, anti-semitic, in favor of killing rebels (Munzer) if not catholics. Yet that's one of KO's idols--(who would put a pic of Breton next to Luther anyway?) . Olson quotes the likes of Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. He said he likes mormons. Pathetic. <br /><br />Like Silliman, KO also favors censorship and moderation, Mr F-ville. That he dislikes Jessica Smith means little or nothing, especially since it's probably based on what he takes to be her politics or religion. His own attempts at "criticism" are essentially grand political generalizations (commies are bad!), some sentimental obvious patriotic BS, and ..Jeezusss. <br /><br />IN short, Kirby O's one of the biggest yahoos online--and known as such. Berube and pals make fun of him regularly.<br /><br />It's sad you don't seem to realize that, simply because he echoes your own rather conservative views on immigration.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-82704857353923806922010-08-04T20:03:17.553-07:002010-08-04T20:03:17.553-07:00Yes, my impression of Jessica is of a narcissistic...Yes, my impression of Jessica is of a narcissistic, precious, passive-aggressive dreamer. <br /><br />I definitely think Ron's susceptible to this type. <br /><br />Also a militant feminist, but that's irrelevant. Militancy is irrelevant to one's poetic inspiration. Anyone who entertains such illusions as an artist is deluded.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-80959000563049597542010-08-04T19:59:56.354-07:002010-08-04T19:59:56.354-07:00Wow, Kirb, your best post yet!
"Poetry ought...Wow, Kirb, your best post yet!<br /><br />"Poetry ought to be more than narcissism.<br /><br />I think Ron knew that.<br /><br />Jessica doesn't."<br /><br /><br />Yes!!!!!!Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-2879803749354096872010-08-04T18:19:35.916-07:002010-08-04T18:19:35.916-07:00Ron is an idealist who actually cared if some thug...Ron is an idealist who actually cared if some thug's head was getting bumped as he was being moved from one cell to another in a prison. <br /><br />That says everything about him.<br /><br />Jessica was a thug and a narcissist, who simply couldn't stand it that in the poetry mirror people didn't say she was the fairest of all, so she threw a fit and cracked the mirror.<br /><br />I'm not sure it matters.<br /><br />Ron doesn't like young poetesses. He is an idealist, and wants an ideal world where everyone is nice, and starry-eyed, and likes poetry.<br /><br />I tend to see the world differently, and feel that I did something amazing by getting him to see the beauty of Lutheranism, and Christianity in general.<br /><br />I had an enormous impact on him.<br /><br />In general, I developed a lot of relationships through his blogs with poets, that I would not otherwise have had. I like agonistic relationships.<br /><br />They're more interesting.<br /><br />Jessica Simpson or whatever her name is didn't want that. She wanted adulation, or so it seems. I find that kind of thing very boring, and not to be a real relationship. Relationships are agonistic or not at all.<br /><br />But they also have to be relationships. <br /><br />I think J. and Jessica are basically just narcissists interested in themselves. You have to be interested in larger points. Individuals are meaningless. It's goals and logic that we're trying to develop in poetry. Not self-adulation.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-50600445255878012982010-08-04T18:13:42.763-07:002010-08-04T18:13:42.763-07:00Curtis, I thought your comment on Ron liking young...Curtis, I thought your comment on Ron liking young poetesses was misplaced. I'm not saying he hates them, but he's ideologically motivated. He's an idealist. He's not pricing anything to sell, either.<br /><br />Ron is a very idealistic person. He cares if some thug's head gets bumped when he is dragged from one part of a prison to another. Honestly, who else would care?<br /><br />Ron has stars in his eyes!<br /><br />It's what makes him kind of a valuable person.<br /><br />It's just too bad those ideals lead to thuggery on a national scale. I tried to tell him that. I don't think he listened, but he did distance himself from Mao and pushed Jefferson.<br /><br />I felt I made some small difference in his thinking.<br /><br />I think he's also just a tad more accepting of Christians thanks to my interventions at his blog.<br /><br />The thing is that it doesn't matter what was said there. The specifics don't matter. Some of us developed a few relationships of a kind that were almost as good as face to face. I like Ron Silliman as a person!<br /><br />I just thought he had the wrong ideas!<br /><br />When Jessica came in and shut it all down, I didn't feel like it helped me create new relationships. It was just a tad monstrous, in the guise of being wonderfully nice, and all sweet. It was will to power disguised as can't we all just get along?<br /><br />Actually, we can't and we shouldn't try. We should split each other's heads open with new ideas, in order to improve our own. I see poetry as a game of hockey with no holds barred.<br /><br />Well, at least the discussion of poetry.<br /><br />But, it's all in fun, and it's meant to develop relationships. If you're not going to develop real long-term relationships, why are you talking to people?<br /><br />If you're going to discipline and punish people for not saying what you want them to say, or if you're going to silence them as stupid Jessica did, then you might as well just have a mirror, and say, mirror, mirror, and admit you are writing poetry out of pure narcissism.<br /><br />To me, that's boring.<br /><br />Poetry ought to be more than narcissism.<br /><br />I think Ron knew that.<br /><br />Jessica doesn't.<br /><br />What was the name of the young woman in Iraq who claimed that she had gotten all warrior like in Iraq, but it turned out to be a publicity stunt? Wasn't her name also Jessica Simpson, or something? Is this even the same person?<br /><br />Anyway, who cares.<br /><br />I got a few new friends out of Ron's blague: curtis, John Hanson, Brett Swanson, and about a half dozen others. Plus, he showed me how to have a blog, which brought me 350,000 hits.<br /><br />Ron's blague was functional is all, and now it isn't, so the thing is to find other modes of functioning in order to create new arguments, new forms of ugliness, and new relationships.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-84133692358983166432010-08-04T15:48:18.853-07:002010-08-04T15:48:18.853-07:00Why Silliman would go to such lengths to indulge h...<i>Why Silliman would go to such lengths to indulge her indignation, I have no idea. Ron does have a soft spot for sweet young poetesses, so maybe it just comes down to exaggerated politesse.</i><br /><br />As said a few comments above, it's punk sh*t. Merely opportunism--aimed at pleasing Ms Smith, whose emotings wouldn't make it past a Hallmark editor. Note also the bait and switch technique, common to many liberal blogs: ie say a few nasty things, wait for a response. One or two heated responses come in from some labelled as "trolls", then shut down comments and insult the supposed "troll". It probably gets her juices flowing too.<br /><br />Kirby O's mistaken about the politics as well, as usual. There were a few faux-radicals. But Silliman's not a marxist, of either the wild-eyed, or bureaucratic sort. He's a huckster. He's selling t-shirts. LANGUAGE poetry, priced to move.<br /><br />I doubt he could write a coherent 5 paragraph essay.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-52921801294572985402010-08-04T13:43:00.114-07:002010-08-04T13:43:00.114-07:00Gosh, Kirby, so much hostility.
What movie is it ...Gosh, Kirby, so much hostility.<br /><br />What movie is it in which Robert De Niro says "F*ck you, and the horse you rode in on!" ?<br /><br />It's a great ice-breaker.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-44016410670007111182010-08-04T13:24:24.844-07:002010-08-04T13:24:24.844-07:00Ron wanted to close the comments box down, and use...Ron wanted to close the comments box down, and used Jessica's silly argument to do it.<br /><br />Feminism is the new Goliath, and Ron thought he could hide behind Jessica and get points for shutting down the comments box.<br /><br />Feminism is the new Goliath.<br /><br />Besides, Ed, I don't make you drink from the communion cup.<br /><br />Jessica Smith is just a weak poet but she doesn't want to hear about it. She wants to feel encouraged. It's the only way she can go on, because she knows deep down that her work isn't any good.<br /><br />Kim Jong-Il also knows that he can't govern, so he silences anybody who tells him that.<br /><br />It's will-to-power.<br /><br />Ron is also less and less convinced his blog is making any sense. All the points he started out with he no longer believes in any longer.<br /><br />The comments box is making him want more and more to shut down his game.<br /><br />His game: everything is language. Why? Because Derrida and Mao said so via Foucault and Lacan.<br /><br />Ron doesn't even open those texts any longer, but they're the wave he rode in on.<br /><br />So he can't renounce it.<br /><br />He's as passe as Pound.<br /><br />The truth is with poets like Billy Collins and Marianne Moore. Collins because he is popular and can write very good scenarios which Ron can't. Moore because she understood the real world, which is the world of the secular and the divine.<br /><br />Ron understands neither.<br /><br />But he doesn't want to hear about it. I can't blame him.<br /><br />He's too old to start over.<br /><br />Plus, most of the people in his comments box were just plain idiots. They thought they were revolutionaries, but they were just revolting.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-62603897824343631992010-08-04T10:23:03.516-07:002010-08-04T10:23:03.516-07:00Ed:
I think Jessica's just what we used to ca...Ed:<br /><br />I think Jessica's just what we used to call "a sensitive plant"--<br /><br />there was a book years ago called, I think, The Secret Life of Plants, and that fits--<br /><br />I didn't know Jessica's work, so took some time to review her bio, samples of her poetry, and so forth which I could find online. I must say, I wasn't very impressed by her work, which strikes me as fairly sophomoric. Why Silliman would go to such lengths to indulge her indignation, I have no idea. Ron does have a soft spot for sweet young poetesses, so maybe it just comes down to exaggerated politesse. <br /><br />Whatever.<br /><br />In any case, Ed, you're always welcome here.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-46572459084632356312010-08-04T10:12:07.910-07:002010-08-04T10:12:07.910-07:00I, for one,
will NEVER post another comment on any...I, for one,<br />will NEVER post another comment on any boddhi's blog that I have been banded from for my sintax or for my spelling or for <br />"speaking" to a (someone's) poem that doesn't work...<br /><br />what ever happended to good old-fashioned criticism...<br /><br />I once criticize a JS poem thusly:<br /><br /> " Jessica, the poem 'sucks' it doesn't work. Poetry presents the thing in order to present the feeling. It should be precise about the thing and reticent about the feeling. Don't seek complications where they ain't"<br /><br />well... I am banned for life from 'that' sight of hers...<br /><br />so, where to now go?<br /><br />Huth's site? Faville's site? Olson's sight? Bloomberg-Rissman's site?<br /><br />since I profess that religion and politics are bologna..and so with Poetry:<br /> where DO i goooooooo?<br /><br />into my own Points and Counterpoints?Ed Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-729916562166575102010-08-04T09:56:13.223-07:002010-08-04T09:56:13.223-07:00This is a great comment, Kirby, and one which belo...This is a great comment, Kirby, and one which belongs in the middle of a debate about Silliman's Blog.<br /><br />I had always felt that embarrassing and surprising and improbable opinions were better than comfortable and predictable and easy ones. Who of us doesn't love the unexpected radical hiding inside the bank clerk or the night watchman?<br /><br />I also like--but have never thought about it in quite this way--your comment that "it was the only chance [we] ever had to talk back to the LANGUAGE police [i.e., "Language Poets" I presume?]". That's quite true, in that none of the rest of them ever ran an interactive blog-site. Bernstein doesn't allow comments, for instance. If he did, there'd be a lot more interesting interaction possible. <br /><br />There will be more to say about this in the future.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-6130644738345768602010-08-04T09:32:45.844-07:002010-08-04T09:32:45.844-07:00Will to power was always there in the comments box...Will to power was always there in the comments box, but so was the wish to remove the comments box (Jessica Smith said that unless all of poetry readers approved of her work she just couldn't go on!), and thus the silencing of all poetry readers who didn't approve of her!<br /><br />I didn't care one way or the other about her, honestly.<br /><br />I think it's wonderful that he capped the comments box, and killed eight years of discussion at one stroke.<br /><br />There were some gems in there, but it was mostly a conversation carried on for fun, with the will to power as a constant menace just behind that.<br /><br />Even in poetry, or perhaps especially in poetry, will to power is always very much the greatest motivation.<br /><br />I think the thing that's funniest is that now no one will read Ron's blog any more. He thinks it was all about him, but it was actually about his comments box.<br /><br />It was the only chance any of us ever had to talk back to the LANGUAGE police. It was like Glasnost.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-55771923449172771302010-08-03T17:50:40.818-07:002010-08-03T17:50:40.818-07:00I posted a comment on the Silliman blog. It was lo...I posted a comment on the Silliman blog. It was long enough I had to send it in two parts, a firsthand description of the funeral procession for Cory Aquino. The procession stalled for nearly two hours a block from my building. The news helicopters photographing the scene for television were hovering outside my living room window, blocking my view. Cory's son has since become president and will be for the next five years.Craighttp://pinnacled.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-71070075362091902402010-08-03T11:59:18.376-07:002010-08-03T11:59:18.376-07:00Most comments are somewhat expendable, but not all...Most comments are somewhat expendable, but not all. Deleting a few years of comments might not be hilarious to Writer X who wrote some lengthy analysis in a comment box (not that that's such a good idea, but happens)--<br /><br />or say ala Kirby O & friends some posters were engaged in a limerick contest. And they delete Kirby's bestest limerick--he'd be irked, probably have to talk to his Pastor Schmutzberg or somethin' . <br /><br />Say Writer X even did some research, links to papers, articles, etc., posted in comments and worked for hours on the thread. Disappeared by Chairperson Ron in a moment of paranoid rage (he could have made an announcement--Ill be deleting all this manana, etc). Punk sh*t, as they say southside--which is to say, snitch.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-19303942412065331252010-08-03T11:22:20.451-07:002010-08-03T11:22:20.451-07:00Kirby:
I think you have exactly the right attitud...Kirby:<br /><br />I think you have exactly the right attitude.<br /><br />Let it go....Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-15313407051148507712010-08-03T11:12:43.416-07:002010-08-03T11:12:43.416-07:00I think it's hilarious that Ron wiped out the ...I think it's hilarious that Ron wiped out the entirety of the comments over the last eight years.<br /><br />I mean, who cares?Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-51774049223628583882010-08-03T10:02:17.879-07:002010-08-03T10:02:17.879-07:00He's spewed a great deal, and spammed in his l...He's spewed a great deal, and spammed in his lists, and embedded pictures and youtubes but it's mostly just PC fluff-- sentimental, "liberal" in the bad sense. <br /><br />His whole "school of quietude" rant means little or nothing. Didn't he say that about Charles Simic--Simic's like triple the writer and poet that S-man will ever be. He considers Bobby Dylan jingles or Ginsturd's ugly madhouse rants above , like, any poet or writer of the 20th century? A sad joke.<br /><br /> Read his supposed criticism--not informed by any sort of philosophical reflection, even the usual bad marxism (for that matter S-man at times sounds pretty conservative, ala Kirby O. I bet he watches Blenn Geck as well). He drops names and a few "isms" but there's little if any substance to his writing, no facts to deal with. Just lightweight indignation--that's S-man--not worth really getting worked up about, but it was a popular site. A few naughty comments and he pulls the plug. Typical whiny poetaster BS.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-3669455455539056032010-08-03T09:53:47.619-07:002010-08-03T09:53:47.619-07:00a while back when I was young and fancy-free I wr...a while back when I was young and fancy-free I wrote a manifesto de:aling with this very issue... and<br />much to my shegrin it was published for The World to see/read annnndddddd without (and within) further ado,<br />hear 'tis, en toto:<br /><br />http://www.flashpointmag.com/bakman.htm<br /><br /><br /><br />(for whut it's worth!Ed Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285310130024785775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-59719367194494233132010-08-03T09:48:49.396-07:002010-08-03T09:48:49.396-07:00J:
I'm not particularly concerned about your ...J:<br /><br />I'm not particularly concerned about your name-calling or occasional scatology (I think people will judge you by your words), but you do need to get the facts straight.<br /><br />Ron has indeed written a good deal of important, well-thought-out expository (or critical) prose. I find his writing to be clear, and often convincing. He confronts serious issues in a controversial manner, and has a huge and varied following. He's a good deal more catholic in his tastes than almost anyone else I can think of, and he's generous and energetic enough to share that wide reading and awareness. I applaud this.<br /><br />But I do not always agree with him. How could it be otherwise? If you want to discuss his blog, why not start one of your own, and address the matter directly?<br /><br />Let's be civil and agree to disagree with grace, as well as passion.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-26027377154758736872010-08-03T08:21:05.381-07:002010-08-03T08:21:05.381-07:00Silliman symbolizes about everything wrong with th...Silliman symbolizes about everything wrong with the lit-business. It's unlikely he's ever written a research paper or article, or sat at a copy desk much less penned an essay on a real book, whether Kant, Conrad or Ray Chandler. <br /><br />He's another of these bay area PC freaks who picked up a few quasi-radical ideas (ie faux-marxism), hung out with loudmouths and beat-bums, and starts spewing this bizarre chaotic mish mash, and some people considered him a "serious" writer. BS. <br /><br />His own swirly, girly prose on his lame site wouldn't make it past an ordinary metro editor. F*ck that fat snitch motherf*cker. <br /><br />That's the proper attitude. Not the little whiny, wow someone used an ad hominem or trolled, or rude epithet tea-swiller approach. But in-his- face denunciation.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-66087876306259825582010-08-03T05:09:54.535-07:002010-08-03T05:09:54.535-07:00It's a hint to Kirby that I could comment on h...It's a hint to Kirby that I could comment on his blog post if he allowed Anonymous and Name/URL comments as you do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-20635790538304228592010-08-02T21:05:17.726-07:002010-08-02T21:05:17.726-07:00Golly, Anon.
You've really got me stumped.
...Golly, Anon.<br /><br />You've really got me stumped. <br /><br />I need a context for these remarks-- ??Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-42484983374078783462010-08-02T19:35:20.073-07:002010-08-02T19:35:20.073-07:00Google ID still has me locked out of Kirby's c...Google ID still has me locked out of Kirby's comments. Speaking of quality, how did Grant and Sherman fare at West Point?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com