tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post5242214986172553391..comments2024-03-19T21:14:01.007-07:00Comments on The Compass Rose: "So Ardently Contested..."Curtis Favillehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-84642596316066003442010-09-13T23:58:23.032-07:002010-09-13T23:58:23.032-07:00Why, Anny, you're Miss Anny--thus a coward (n...Why, Anny, you're Miss Anny--thus a coward (not to say obsessed--I have an idea who this is, Sir F-ville, and he's been following me around for a few weeks, after the S-man BS). Step over to my blog tough literary dude. And use a real name. Ill tell who I am, and where you can find me, and be knocked down, or mo' likely just byatch slapped like the comma corrector you izzzJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-59059041374004056582010-09-10T07:31:38.412-07:002010-09-10T07:31:38.412-07:00Hi Curtis
'forbear' or 'forebear' ...Hi Curtis<br />'forbear' or 'forebear' is o.k. according to the S.O.D.(ancestor more remote than a grandfather) I am enjoying your posts here in Ireland particularly about poets who would be unknown to all but the specialist. Koch's litany was splendid.michael reidyhttp://ombhurbhuva.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-15957530168065483742010-09-09T13:18:09.181-07:002010-09-09T13:18:09.181-07:00J-Anny, there are 9.8 million people in Los Angele...J-Anny, there are 9.8 million people in Los Angeles County. Not really stepping out from a crowd there, are you?<br /><br />But that's the way you like it, and want it, like most cowards. You like to mistakenly talk like you're not anonymous, when that's EXACTLY what you are. The empty signifier "J" may as well be "The Moon" or "Spackle".<br /><br />Furthermore, what person here, or at Silliman's blog, or at Scarriet, or at Jessica's blog, would actually want you to know where they are, or who they are? You've proven yourself over and over again to be a an aggressive, violent person, capable, most recently, of wanting to hit someone in the mouth who disagrees with you? I would think most people would want to remain anonymous because most people don't want to be hit in the mouth by someone who can't control themselves. Most males past 16 years of age are able to gain a foothold on their emotions, and reconcile them. This is what is referred to as becoming a man. Best wishes on that pursuit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-39235396955195332042010-09-09T08:22:21.954-07:002010-09-09T08:22:21.954-07:00conrad
the NY times quote of the day is
"we ...conrad<br />the NY times quote of the day is<br /><br />"we want to make google the third half of your brain"<br /><br />is that what you mean by the new meme<br />the kind of thing we ignore at our peril?<br /><br />jhjhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10043530995274885830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-86815096894117738422010-09-08T16:08:40.857-07:002010-09-08T16:08:40.857-07:00who ever sees DNA
conrad
some scientists
to me it&...who ever sees DNA<br />conrad<br />some scientists<br />to me it's a myth<br />some acid that may or may not exist<br />i don't know<br /><br />if the genome is the state of the art<br />i've rejected it<br /><br />if what dawkins points to has any credibility at all it has nothing to do with his observation(s)<br /><br />evolution is little more than an interesting theory to me<br />same category as black holes and big bangs<br />speculations proposed as modern myth<br />sort of true<br />like the gods of antiquity<br />helpful in explaining some things<br /><br />analogy is well and good<br />the basis of all thought i guess<br />but a meme is like a weird stage prop invented by a desperate director<br /><br />if a person starts with evolution<br />they're already 10 degrees off at the beginning and the trajectory looks more and more like an endless mobius strip in a purely imagined world<br /><br />the scientists are presuming to know a world that was explored by philosophers and philosophers have been toppled to make room for this pretension<br /><br />science is to knowledge what janitors are to society<br /><br />when any evolutionary scientist begins to make social analogies to what he has come to understand by way of darwin immediately i am in revolt<br /><br />there are no scientists<br />only scientific behaviour<br />that's where i stand on the whole mess<br /><br />darwin dawkins have done absolutely nothing for me<br />i'm very dissappointed in both of them<br />i would have thought there'd be more to it<br />whereas jacques maritain feeds my mind as does raissa<br /><br />gm hopkins was more important to the <br />19th century than was dadadadarwinniepooh<br /><br />give me charles dodgson<br />anyday<br />before the other overrated charles<br /><br />i stake my claim with the incredible<br /><br />back to the cellars<br />clamouring seekers of physica<br />your reasons are short and<br />inflated<br /><br />all this aside<br /><br />points well taken<br /><br />jhjhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10043530995274885830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-58026969232077228392010-09-08T12:15:17.385-07:002010-09-08T12:15:17.385-07:00I link to a blog Anny, with a few years of content...I link to a blog Anny, with a few years of content--and have a name--"J". People online can get a sense of what Im about. You don't link to squat but just whine and take potshots. Maybe yr Kirby O!<br /><br />Actually I would agree with jh (in part) that Dawkins' memetics theory does not apply to, or fit literature easily, and it's nearly social darwinism to insist it does (not to say...reductionism). Writers do not merely adapt to the environment, or advancing the gene pool. Human knowledge including literature, mathematics, science et al is not something shared with animals. Words like equations or musical scores don't grow on trees--the Dawkins or Darwinist generally overlooks all the philosophical implications of language .Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-69467805244105127172010-09-08T11:24:43.178-07:002010-09-08T11:24:43.178-07:00jh,
I see where you're going with this but I&...jh,<br /><br />I see where you're going with this but I'd like to think of the meme (and its more computerized equivalent, the 'teme')as a sort of inevitable evolutionary course that's beyond refuting (not if we're to continue adapting with success). In fact,Dawkins has injected a hard-to-resist DNA component into the darwinian thesis that we can't deny without losing credibility.<br /><br />To put it in terms I've recently encountered in a different (but related)discussion, the darwinism you're taking aim at is an outmoded "client-server"type, subject to all the usual religious objections, while the meme is a case for a more interesting & universal "virtualization or cloud computing" model of human-world interactivity.The sort of adaptation I'm suggesting is the basis of all successful learning may well have to go beyond the traditional ways of thinking about the workings of mind, language & the nature of reality. Genetics & contemporary computing has added an almost unbeatable dimension to the discussion.Conrad DiDiodatohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18312831623791642286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-42645606303789986312010-09-08T10:55:36.503-07:002010-09-08T10:55:36.503-07:00Thanks, Curtis, for saying this:
"But postin...Thanks, Curtis, for saying this:<br /><br />"But posting anonymously is pathetic and cowardly. No matter how good you may think you are, taking sniper shots is just chicken-shit."<br /><br />I'm glad you came out against it, and him, by extension. We've all been tired of J's anonymity game for a long time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-65264731866724110622010-09-08T10:05:04.767-07:002010-09-08T10:05:04.767-07:00i thrive on benign neglect
like mold
jhi thrive on benign neglect<br />like mold<br /><br />jhjhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10043530995274885830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-73233888784540059652010-09-08T08:53:23.698-07:002010-09-08T08:53:23.698-07:00Anon:
It really would be better just to come as y...Anon:<br /><br />It really would be better just to come as you are, without disguises. Arguing with people about the value of your work is always a big waste of time. Sort of like arguing with the proctor about your low test scores--he isn't going to change the grade, no matter what the extenuating circumstances are. <br /><br />The best you can hope for is that a negative opinion may be buried under an avalanche of positives. <br /><br />"I am I because my little dog loves me." --Gertrude Stein.<br /><br />wimpling: To cause to appear as if laid in folds or plaits; to cause to ripple or undulate; as, the wind wimples the surface of water. [1913 Webster]<br /><br />I do have friends who have snorkled to document fish behavior, but in my own case all my adventures with fish have been above the surface membrane. <br /><br />JM: You need better models. Or some better airplane glue. The best revenge is neglect: Be advised.<br /><br />You were a hostage in a war. Get over it.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-88287630423844411392010-09-08T08:32:05.938-07:002010-09-08T08:32:05.938-07:00the necessity of imitation as a vital first step t...<i> the necessity of imitation as a vital first step to successful adapation. </i><br /><br />Gradus ad Parnassum, anyone? Yet one might ask if they should start with WC Williams and Basho or beats(or Dorn's colorful anti-imperialist cowboy-anarchist poetix), instead of Pound or PB Shelley...or Plato perhaps. <br /><br />To say students should begin with WCW suggests they may dispense with poetic form, meter/verse...tropes, rhyme, romantic languages even. Perhaps ultimately they will reject any and all traditional forms--yet they should know what they are rejecting. Doesn't a serious pianist like learn Bach and Chopin before he moves on to Bartok or jazz or other modern muzak? Similarly for those who would aspire to poetics---<br /><br />Dawkins & Co aren't of much assistence either, really--Their granddaddy reductionist TH Huxley in fact wanted the classics--including latin-greek, Plato, and belle-lettres-- eliminated (see <a href="http://contingenciesblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/smackdown-th-huxley-vs.html" rel="nofollow">Smackdown</a>).Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-25568212317990882232010-09-08T08:24:49.709-07:002010-09-08T08:24:49.709-07:00Anyone who believes "the young poet in questi...Anyone who believes "the young poet in question" writes bad imitations of the work of second-rate writers, or that Corman and Rexroth's translations are "not entirely propitious transmission[s]" -- <br /><br />no doubt has his head stuck deep below some "wimpling stream."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-77846362491478606412010-09-08T08:17:12.383-07:002010-09-08T08:17:12.383-07:00conrad
mothers raising children have understood mi...conrad<br />mothers raising children have understood mimetics since the dawn of time since the caves at least<br /><br />darwin and thus dawkins both get a "D" theys boths describes things theys does not have the mental subtelty to understands<br />theys both reads too fews bookses<br /><br />in a world where god is not necessary but darwins observations are <br />i feel extremely vulnerable to various forms of violent sodomy<br /><br />we likes likes and learn likes<br />rabbis understood the power of mimetics before the time of jesus<br />christians imitated the jews<br /><br />people use doofus darwin as a gospel text<br />the good news -- why am i horrified<br /><br />i scoff at those who manifest the arrogance of (presumed) understanding the "design" they see the surface they do not grasp the depths<br /><br />the psalms indeed much of the bible was written with continuation in mind thus<br />rhyme and mimesis<br /><br />darwin has nothing to offer the world of 21st century nothing but birth control and screaming vaginaz and crude management of humanity and nature<br />it looks like freedom but it's spiritual imprisonment of the worst kind<br />we do well to resist any and all of it<br /><br />genetic engineering is based on a faulty and incomplete knowledge of nature<br />they did not consult wendell berry or wes jackson<br />shame on those people<br /><br />either we aspire to divine intelligence<br />or we impose a faulty and pathetic substitute<br />on everyone else<br /><br />trying to get over a hurdle<br />do the fosbury flop<br /><br />poetix is a continuum<br />leaving any part of the continuum out<br />provides for little but verbalized abstraction<br />the kids are learning to speak off of twitter<br />ignorant of the continuum<br /><br />bio diversity and sincere wonder<br />the sort that tends toward the unspeakable -- this might save the world<br /><br />everything from cave paintings to <br />21st century love poetry<br />(of which there is paltry little sad to say)<br />must be in the equation<br /><br />phuq the atheist positivists<br />that's what i say<br />i will not embrace their world view<br />not for all the tea in china<br />or the coffee in columbia<br />phuq them but make them reproduce for gawdz sake -- no birth control<br /><br />as for max douglas he betrays his age and his time but it would be ignorance of the worst kind if we ignored the uniqueness of his voice<br />that seems to be curtis' point<br />not so much a mutation but the curious mystery of someone willing and able to pen out a few insights<br />in a pleasant way<br /><br />"the last baseball game of a few children is shattered by the bell"<br /><br />( a clear description of the last game of the world series every year)<br /><br />one has to say<br />aha<br /><br />anyway<br />in downunderish<br />good on ya<br /><br />jhjhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10043530995274885830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-34175783613431150002010-09-08T05:14:58.239-07:002010-09-08T05:14:58.239-07:00Here's something I just saw in the online &quo...Here's something I just saw in the online "New York Times" (op.ed), which makes the point (in more contemporary language) about the necessity of imitation as a vital first step to successful adapation. The relevance of this "Universal Darwinism" to writing is tempting, of course:<br /><br /><br />"Let’s go back to 1976 and the origin of the term “meme” in Richard Dawkins’s “The Selfish Gene.” He says this: “I think we have got to start again and go right back to first principles. … . The gene will enter my thesis as an analogy, nothing more.” (Dawkins, 1976. p. 191). Those first principles are what he calls “Universal Darwinism” ─ that when anything is copied with variation and selection then evolution must occur. He looks at human culture, argues that songs, words, ideas, technologies and habits are all copied from person to person with added variations and heavy selection and so concludes that there must be a new evolutionary process going on. He calls the replicator involved in that new process the meme."Conrad DiDiodatohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18312831623791642286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-78560728524135920382010-09-08T03:16:41.808-07:002010-09-08T03:16:41.808-07:00Does anyone remember Dave Fosbury? He came along a...Does anyone remember Dave Fosbury? He came along at a time when the only approved method of high jumping was known as the western roll. The flop was devised by a guy who simply couldn't master the timing involved in kicking his lead leg over the bar so that the rest of his body could follow after it in a smooth rounded arc. Fosbury had so much spring in his take-off and so much glide that it was easier for him to go over the bar backwards off his back foot, lifting his feet once his butt had cleared the bar, than it was to master the technique and precise timing required for the western roll leg kick. He was a freak. The experts were sure it would never catch on, in part because there was nobody who could possibly teach it. Watch a track and field meet sometime. Is there anybody doing the western roll? Valery Brummel used to clear seven feet doing the roll. As a technique it's still competitive at the high school level, but anyone with serious aspirations learns to flop.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061304265345986242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-86789474851988371512010-09-07T20:47:11.488-07:002010-09-07T20:47:11.488-07:00i've seen the needle and the damage done - NY
...i've seen the needle and the damage done - NY<br /><br />of course we all know that<br />the 60s and 70s were not particulaly elegant times<br />lots of people ODd<br />it was the surreal beginning of a culture managed by drugs<br />which we seem to be now<br /><br />i admire your ability to praise dead poets curtis<br />i had never heard of max douglas and for that alone i am grateful<br /><br />i think he writes just as you say he does with conscientious steps and a classical hankering for lines finely rendered<br />i'd like to read the book<br /><br />keats blew out the flame youngish<br /><br />i've sometimes wondered who the shimmering stand above the crowd voices were in the mid 70s...i was into berryman richard hugo rilke and frost and wendell berry<br />and roethke<br /><br />i was also reading a lot of fernando sor and heitor villa-lobos not to mention mauro giuliani and paganinni and bach always bach<br />so i wonder who the greats were at that time<br />creeley was still alive and he'd made it to the top of the black mountain a time or two - rexroth<br /><br />we looked to bob dylan jim morrison the byrds leonard cohen kris kristofferson johnny cash even shall is say john denver and james taylor and later in my late teens the blues poets lemon jefferson gary davis john hurt buddy guy bob marley jerry garcia and the lot<br />poetry went over the airwaves like electric dust through a drug deal gone bad<br /><br />adrienne rich and sexston and plathe were bebop bandied about<br /><br />rockjazz fusion was the rage in music art i thought it all a bit wierd<br /><br />i must say silliman turned me on to the hot scene of oddballs and circus word entertainers of berkely and east coast things<br /><br />i spent a few years getting intimate with rivers guitar music romance and heartbreak<br />just like those damn old lutenists of old william byrd et al<br /><br />is anonymous a girl<br />is anonymous a noun<br />a pro noun<br />does anonymous gno<br />i think gnot<br /><br />anonymous be nice<br /><br />jhjhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10043530995274885830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-25223989459322763172010-09-07T20:13:01.971-07:002010-09-07T20:13:01.971-07:00I agree. Not really objecting to his character...
...I agree. Not really objecting to his character...<br /><br />The poetic-critic Tom Clark was another in that scene, tho' Dorn was sort of a Dr. Johnson to Clarkski's Boswell-lite. And I believe Dorn partied with the one and only...Hunter S Thompson. Or....once at the Boulderado...Dorn yelling, people shouting, swilling gin and tonics, sniffing in the loo, jazz, deadheads, some of the nagropa freaks, and the good Dr. was like 3 hours late to his rant. You had to be there....<br /><br /> I wasn't around B. until mid 80s so missed out on all the nagropa scandalizing...that one K-O turned knows all aboout...ooo la la la la la-lah. .Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-67057073807249018562010-09-07T19:56:58.192-07:002010-09-07T19:56:58.192-07:00J:
Thanks for the spell-check. My bad. I know h...J:<br /><br />Thanks for the spell-check. My bad. I know how to spell it, but missed it in copy-read.<br /><br />I didn't suggest that Douglas was the equal of Dorn, only that Dorn, who was his teacher, is a transparent influence on his work. I think in a good way, too. But then I love Dorn's early work--through Geography (Fulcrum Press). And his sarcastic and insufferable mien was frequently noted. I don't think that matters to his writing. Assholes can be great poets. Nice guys maybe not so often--just a casual surmise.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-3358055008861070572010-09-07T19:49:45.998-07:002010-09-07T19:49:45.998-07:00Anon:
Again, this would mean more if I knew who y...Anon:<br /><br />Again, this would mean more if I knew who you were. Faceless commentary is kind of pointless, but I'll respond out of courtesy, which is more than you deserve.<br /><br />The works cited were furnished at the request of another blogger, about 5-6 years ago. I'm no longer attached to them, and I'd agree that they're unworthy, and not just of me. I like "windswept cylinder of flux" which captures for me the mating swarms of mayflies over a spring creek in high Summer. <br /><br />But posting anonymously is pathetic and cowardly. No matter how good you may think you are, taking sniper shots is just chicken-shit.<br /><br />Ultimately, how good my own work is has nothing to do with the quality of my criticism. Your attempt to attack my authority as a critic-blogger by attacking my own work is impertinent. <br /><br />Come out of the closet, ninny, and defend yourself.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-79977792917043903052010-09-07T19:44:02.871-07:002010-09-07T19:44:02.871-07:00Conrad:
A review is not an "elucidation"...Conrad:<br /><br />A review is not an "elucidation"--that's the function of critical essays. <br /><br />A review is to make a Yay or Nay with some signal examples. <br /><br />My point was somewhat tangential here. I felt that Massey's work lacks an essential ingredient which Max Douglas possessed when he was still in his teens. I believe Massey's failings are traceable to the examples he seems to have chosen to emulate. I think he could learn a lot more from Wallace Stevens, Michael Palmer, and Graham Foust than those I mentioned. That's a suggestion, nothing more.Curtis Favillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06213075853354387634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-85338417049805227412010-09-07T19:40:28.299-07:002010-09-07T19:40:28.299-07:00... clear acknowledgments to forbears
forbearers,...<i>... clear acknowledgments to forbears</i><br /><br />forbearers, medinx. forebear is the verb. For bears, like...well yr bay area...so...<br /><br /><br />poet Im not but some of Dorn's manga entertains ein bitchin'---tho' he sort of relied upon the shall we say "cokehead-wanderjahr-pastoral." this kid's stuff doesn't seem nearly as fleshed out and evocative as yall say as Dorn's writing.<br /><br />That said Dorn could be an asshole, especially when drinkin'...or ...flyin' air peru, wearing his country gent. get-up-- vest, boots, even stetson at times--you'd hear his voice echo in hellems on occasion....british accent at times (sounded a bit...bogus). He hustled any and all coeds whilst per-fessorin' at CU as well (and was not liked by like the rightist-techies and/or marxistas for that matter...). Tried to add his class once but he was hot propertay at the time and only the hippest of the granola mafia got in.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-25978124308333298032010-09-07T14:39:49.132-07:002010-09-07T14:39:49.132-07:00http://www.scn.org/realpoetik/Curtis-Faville05.htm...http://www.scn.org/realpoetik/Curtis-Faville05.htm<br /><br />Curtis, is that a joke? <br /><br />those poems are awful. <br />what "tier" would you place them on, <br /><br />"whirring above the wimpling<br />stream"? <br /><br />ha ha ha<br /><br />yr an awful poet no wonder you stopped writing no wonder yr so bitter and irrele-<br />vantAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1660090614793277371.post-36597560784954193872010-09-07T14:26:17.893-07:002010-09-07T14:26:17.893-07:00Curtis,
in the initial stages imitation may be a ...Curtis,<br /><br />in the initial stages imitation may be a necessary evil, especially in poetry which by nature (as Aristotle says)is a pure mimesis. French critic René Girard's views on mimetic theory is also instructive here. In Eastern writing especially where originality is seen as ridiculous wilfulness, there's really no advancing beyond the Master's influence.<br /><br />I believe the young need 'models' that inspire and give them a sort of 'blueprint' from which to begin in those crucial formative years. And if contemporary young poets don't take to well to criticism, that may be because they espouse a very different notion of literacy (a predominantly media literacy)from the one we've been raised on.<br /><br />As Eliot said, the critic's role is to elucidate; the informed reader will make his/her own judgments in the end. The young writers you review need really the gift of elucidation that only a seasoned reader can give. If they take criticism a little too petulantly, perhaps a little patience & compassion are also in order.Conrad DiDiodatohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18312831623791642286noreply@blogger.com